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 Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?

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Sam



Posts : 268
Join date : 2009-10-25
Location : Abbotsford

PostSubject: Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?   Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:43 pm

Yes.

After the 2010 rules changes combat damage no longer uses the stack. What this means is that no player may make any actions between the time when combat damage is assigned and combat damage is dealt.

Quote :
510. Combat Damage Step


510.1. First, the active player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, then
the defending player announces how each blocking creature assigns its combat damage. This turnbased
action doesn’t use the stack.

510.2. Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action
doesn’t use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time
combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt. This is a change from previous rules.

510.3. Third, any abilities that triggered on damage being assigned or dealt go on the stack. (See rule
603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”)

510.4. Fourth, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.

This causes confusion in the case of Vampire Hexmage because she has first strike. It is possible to cast spells and activate abilities between the first strike combat damage phase and the regular combat damage phase.

Quote :
510.5. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see
rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that
step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of
combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat
damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double
strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that
currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.

For example, you attack me with a Scute Mob that had four +1/+1 counters on it and I block it with my Hexmage. During the first strike combat damage step I assign two damage to your Scute Mob dealing two damage to it (rules 510.1 and 501.2). Then I activate Hexmage's ability by sacrificing it to remove all the Scute Mob's counters (rule 510.4). The Scute Mob would die at this point since it has already recieved two damage and is now a 1/1 creature. Both creatures end up in the graveyard.

Here is a link to this question being asked on the MTG forums,
The Wizards Community > Thread - Vampire...
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Warren "The Proxy" Hallam



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Join date : 2009-10-14

PostSubject: Re: Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?   Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:22 am

Awesome job finding this thread, I couldn't track down where I originally saw this trick listed and this will save me a lot of time convincing people next time it's used in the shop
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Sam



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Join date : 2009-10-25
Location : Abbotsford

PostSubject: Re: Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?   Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Yeah, next time someone challenges you for using Hexmage in this fashion you may simply say, "Read rules 510.4 and 510.5 of the comprehensive rulebook... bitches!"
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Mythic Matt

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Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?   Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 pm



That's just wrong...

I hereby dub Vampire Hexmage as: Apocalypse/Protein Hydra Slayer.
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Thulsa Doom

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PostSubject: Re: Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?   Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:48 am

Doesn't rule 510.2 say that you can't sack the Hexmage once you start assigning damage ?
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Sam



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Location : Abbotsford

PostSubject: Re: Vampire Hexmage, can I sac her after first strike damage is dealt?   Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:08 am

A creature with either first strike or double strike creates a second combat damage step (rule 510.5). Vampire Hexmage assigns and deals damage in this step because she has first strike (rule 510.2). At the end of the first/double strike combat damage step there is the opportunity for both players to cast spells and activate abilities (rule 510.4). This is when it become possible to sacrifice the Hexmage as she is still alive at this point so long as the creature she blocked did not have first/double strike. Afterwards, there is a second combat damage step during which regular combat damage is dealt (rule 510.5).
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