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 trample and doublestrike and deathtouch

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PostSubject: trample and doublestrike and deathtouch   Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:47 pm

how does trample interact with doublestrike?

how does trample interact with deathtouch?

important queries require answers.
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PostSubject: Re: trample and doublestrike and deathtouch   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:54 am

Apparently, we've been doing it wrong. Lethal damage is defined as damage equal to or greater than a creature's toughness. Deathtouch does alter what is considered leathal damage even though even 1 damage from a creature with deathtouch would destroy the damaged creature.

Quote :
Lethal Damage
An amount of damage greater than or equal to a creature’s toughness. See rules 118.6, 510.1, and 704.5g.

Q: If I give trample to a creature with deathtouch, can it assign 1 damage to each blocker and the rest to the player?

A: Nope. Deathtouch modifies how you can assign damage to creatures, and it results in a state-based action (le gasp, not an effect anymore! SBEs are SBAs now! See section 704.) that murderizes that creature. But it doesn't alter the rules for what's considered "lethal damage" or for how trample interacts with the rules for considering lethal damage. (Trample is now 702.17) You'll still have to deal a bunch of damage to each blocker if you want to go through to the defending player.
What this means is that when your trample + deathtouch creature is blocked, it must assign lethal damage to each defending creature before it can trample any damage over to the defending player or plainswalker. Keep in mind the amount of damage already assigned to defending creatures from other sources earlier in the same turn.

If the attacking trample + deathtouch creature also has double strike, it would kill all the blocking creatures in the first strike combat round, then it's full damage would trample over in the regular combat round.

Quote :
702.17c If an attacking creature with trample is blocked, but there are no creatures blocking it when damage is assigned, all its damage is assigned to the player or planeswalker it’s attacking.
How this relates to our specific example is as follows:

A Kor Duelist equiped with a Basilisk Collar and a Behemoth Sledge attacks the defending player's Jace which is currently at 1 loyalty counter. The defending player blocks with a Wall of Omens.

In the first strike combat round, the Duelist must assign all 3 of it's damage to the Wall of Omens. In order to trample over, the Duelist would have had to been able to assign 4 damage to the wall in order deal lethal damage. But, since the Duelist has deathtouch the wall is destroyed after damage is dealt as a state-based action.

In the regular combat round, the Duelist has no blockers and can assign all 3 of it's damage to the defending Jace. Note that the Duelist is still considered blocked. Note that the attacking player would gain 6 life from the lifelink granted by the collar.
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PostSubject: Re: trample and doublestrike and deathtouch   Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:37 pm

Graham tried to convince me that trample and double strike add up to the creature being blocked, with no second strike damage carrying over at all. I let it slide because I didn't want to argue, but I knew I was right.
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