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Sipherus




Posts : 88
Join date : 2009-10-17

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PostSubject: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptySat Mar 13, 2010 12:55 pm

If deaths shdow get -x/-x even while in your graveyard does Kormus bell turn swamps in graveyards into creatures.
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Namemattersnot

Namemattersnot


Posts : 130
Join date : 2009-11-08
Age : 34

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyMon Mar 15, 2010 10:32 pm

As far as I know Death's Shadow is a full 13/13 while in the graveyard. Otherwise the Dead Reckoning/Death's Shadow combo (that WOTC put into the WWK fatpack booklet) wouldn't work. I know that WOTC does make mistakes, but that seem like one they wouldn't make.
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Sam




Posts : 268
Join date : 2009-10-25
Location : Abbotsford

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyMon Mar 15, 2010 11:02 pm

Quote :
207.2a The card may have a characteristic-defining ability that sets its power and/or toughness according to some stated condition. (See rule 604.3.) Such an ability is worded “[This creature’s] [power or toughness] is equal to . . .” or “[This creature’s] power and toughness are each equal to . . .” This ability functions everywhere, even outside the game. If the ability needs to use a number that can’t be determined, use 0 instead of that number.

Quote :
604.3. Some static abilities are characteristic-defining abilities. A characteristic-defining ability conveys information about an object’s characteristics that would normally be found elsewhere on that object (such as in its mana cost, type line, or power/toughness box). Characteristic-defining abilities function in all zones. They also function outside the game.
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Namemattersnot

Namemattersnot


Posts : 130
Join date : 2009-11-08
Age : 34

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyTue Mar 16, 2010 10:40 pm

So, if I'm reading this right, if I have 13 life Death's Shadow is a 0/0 in my graveyard. What I then don't understand is why WOTC featured a completely un-usable combo in the WWK fatpack book.
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Sam




Posts : 268
Join date : 2009-10-25
Location : Abbotsford

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyTue Mar 16, 2010 11:19 pm

Magic rules are fucking dumb. They don't make any sense.

Death's Shadow -X/-X ability is apparently NOT a characteristic defining ability (even though it changes its characteristics...) The -X/-X is applied in layer 7, sublayer c, since it doesn't actually state a set number. Therefore, Death's Shadow is a 13/13 in any zone other than the battlefield.

Makes sense? NOPE! I give up on ever understanding the magic comprehensive rules.

Quote :
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.

Quote :
611.3b The effect applies at all times that the permanent generating it is on the battlefield or the object generating it is in the appropriate zone.

Here is more silliness involving Death's Shadow:

Quote :
Interesting scenario came up in Nashville that I was called to advise on (while I was in St Louis!). Player attacks with a 6/6 creature and a 1/1 token. Defending player blocks the 6/6 with his Death’s Shadow when he is at 7 life. Combat damage all resolves at once and state based actions are checked at this point. Although the Death’s Shadow was originally a 6/6, because combat damage is all dealt as a single event (assuming no first strike or double strike) state based actions see Death’s Shadow as a 7/7 (because of the life loss from the 1/1) with 6 damage on it and so it lives.
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Sipherus




Posts : 88
Join date : 2009-10-17

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyWed Mar 17, 2010 1:40 pm

that means no kormus bell creatures in the graveyard right.
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Sam




Posts : 268
Join date : 2009-10-25
Location : Abbotsford

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyWed Mar 17, 2010 4:09 pm

I assume that Kormus Bell's effect lasts so long as it is on the battlefield, and its effect affects swamps in any zone including the graveyard. Interestingly, this gives swamps summoning sickness.
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Sipherus




Posts : 88
Join date : 2009-10-17

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PostSubject: Re: deaths shadow   deaths shadow EmptyMon Mar 22, 2010 11:49 am

Crazy stuff. If you have a platinum angel out and you have negative life deaths shadow gets bigger.
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